twoodcc
Aug 29, 10:15 AM
UPDATE:
It looks like the GMA X3000 is ready to go now, but a Yonah coupled with a X3000 IGP would still make the Mini a great machine.
wow, now that would be something
It looks like the GMA X3000 is ready to go now, but a Yonah coupled with a X3000 IGP would still make the Mini a great machine.
wow, now that would be something
twoodcc
Nov 27, 04:59 PM
well it depends on the resolution of the monitor. i don't really see this a big deal affecting me, but i can see alot of people buying them though. maybe it's good for Apple, but unless the 20" price comes down, doesn't really help me any
lordonuthin
Mar 23, 09:22 PM
Haha. I wanted the 2.66 octo but couldn't justify the price jump (and still somehow managed to justify the quad-to-octo jump, but that's another story). Of course my times tend to deviate, during the days it's just under 33 minutes but now and then a bit of Aperture work comes in and needs CPU attention.
I haven't noticed that bigadv units do not restart. Mine seem to restart just fine the few times I've shut FahCore down, continuing from the same frame. Does it affect the points awarded or so? Good thing I can usually bunch in the updates, last time it was a few software updates and a third HDD :rolleyes:
I wanted the top octo but couldn't justify it :D I had never had anything but the lowest Powermacs (G3 & G5) or, cough, Performa, so I splurged.
The bigadv units NEVER restart on my machine :mad: it only affects the points to the extent that I'm restarting from zero and not where I was at oh say 90 percent or something. I will work on consolidation as soon as I have my Victory Vegas (http://www.polarisindustries.com/en-us/Victory-Motorcycles/2010/Pages/Find-Your-Model.aspx) with new paint back together :p:p it's an 04 with silver goldish paint and a 1500 cc engine :cool:
I haven't noticed that bigadv units do not restart. Mine seem to restart just fine the few times I've shut FahCore down, continuing from the same frame. Does it affect the points awarded or so? Good thing I can usually bunch in the updates, last time it was a few software updates and a third HDD :rolleyes:
I wanted the top octo but couldn't justify it :D I had never had anything but the lowest Powermacs (G3 & G5) or, cough, Performa, so I splurged.
The bigadv units NEVER restart on my machine :mad: it only affects the points to the extent that I'm restarting from zero and not where I was at oh say 90 percent or something. I will work on consolidation as soon as I have my Victory Vegas (http://www.polarisindustries.com/en-us/Victory-Motorcycles/2010/Pages/Find-Your-Model.aspx) with new paint back together :p:p it's an 04 with silver goldish paint and a 1500 cc engine :cool:
ampd
Jul 19, 03:49 PM
one of these days when I have enough money (hopefully by around Aug. 7th) I will be able to buy a mac and become part of those stats.
MacSA
Aug 29, 09:03 AM
It says Core Duo. If we were talking about Merom, it would be Core 2 Duo.
oops.. so it does, getting my cores mixed up :eek:
oops.. so it does, getting my cores mixed up :eek:
MattG
Aug 7, 07:23 AM
In addition to printing and font management, how bout adding to the list networking access. The way one accesses networks in Windows seems much more straight forward, consistent, clean and intuitive in Windows XP than it does in OS X. That's my oppinion anyway. Maybe that's just me. Anyone else agree???
Totally agree...that's one aspect of Windows that I do like better. Local networking on my Macs seems very sluggish compared to Windows.
Ever connect your laptop to a share on the network at work, put the laptop to sleep without disconnecting that share and then bring the computer home? Once the computer notices the share is no longer there, it basically hangs for about 30 seconds until it asks you to disconnect. Windows handles stuff like this MUCH better.
Totally agree...that's one aspect of Windows that I do like better. Local networking on my Macs seems very sluggish compared to Windows.
Ever connect your laptop to a share on the network at work, put the laptop to sleep without disconnecting that share and then bring the computer home? Once the computer notices the share is no longer there, it basically hangs for about 30 seconds until it asks you to disconnect. Windows handles stuff like this MUCH better.
KingYaba
Aug 16, 04:17 PM
Just wait and see. I bet the only new thing we'll see is iPod Nano's getting more storage. As for the replacment of the iPod Video. Just a bigger screen.
twoodcc
May 2, 08:21 PM
they're all used for DTP (AI, AP, QE, etc)
the older one (at home) needs to be paused anytime I need to do anything processor intensive (not the issue with the 09s) especially HB and the like.
The 08 wont make deadlines with the bidadv units (not after pausing it for hours at a time LOL) unfortunately, I am unable to select the number of processors it will use (like I use to <4>) so now I have to pause it.
It looks like people are aware of the user name issues over in the "F@H Widget needs testing" thread
LK
oh ok.
you know, if you use the console client, you can tell it how many cores to use - like smp 7 would only use 7, instead of 8. but i'm not sure if it would make the deadline with only 7. probably not with less than that though.
so with the 09's you can do other things while it's folding bigadv units and no problems?
the older one (at home) needs to be paused anytime I need to do anything processor intensive (not the issue with the 09s) especially HB and the like.
The 08 wont make deadlines with the bidadv units (not after pausing it for hours at a time LOL) unfortunately, I am unable to select the number of processors it will use (like I use to <4>) so now I have to pause it.
It looks like people are aware of the user name issues over in the "F@H Widget needs testing" thread
LK
oh ok.
you know, if you use the console client, you can tell it how many cores to use - like smp 7 would only use 7, instead of 8. but i'm not sure if it would make the deadline with only 7. probably not with less than that though.
so with the 09's you can do other things while it's folding bigadv units and no problems?
poppe
Jul 14, 12:08 PM
From Wiki:
Holographic disks: standards with 200 and 300 GB storage are under development and prototypes expected in 2008
I've heard about Mac users waiting, but 5 years for most likely the first consumer device if lucky, 6 for probably first computer device. 2012.... yes exactly when I wanted to buy my next laptop after the next four I plan to purchase.
As I said they aren't attacking the Consumer market because they have no Backing. Who can beat Sony when Sony pay's best buy to Disply the blue rays and HD-DVD no longer is displayed?
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8370
This link says 2006
http://www.engadget.com/2005/04/18/inphase-announces-300gb-holographic-discs/
This says 2006 for 300 GBS/ 2009 for 1TB
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/24/maxell_holo_storage/
"Late 2006"
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/80850/holographic-discs-set-for-retail-next-year.html
2006...
http://www.techtree.com/techtree/jsp/article.jsp?article_id=69424&cat_id=581
2006...
http://www.layersmagazine.com/beta/article/holographic-discs-set-for-retail-next-year.html
2006...
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Optware-Announces-200GB-Holographic-Discs-for-2006-10859.shtml
2006 - for 200 gbs
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1785630,00.asp
2006...
http://www.computerworld.com/hardwaretopics/storage/story/0,10801,95446,00.html
2006... though this was written (2004) so...
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1311642.cms
2006...
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1821012,00.asp
2006..
From Wikipedia (your source) - "160 times the capacity of single-layer Blu-ray Discs, and about 8 times the capacity of standard computer hard drives with space that accounts for year 2006 standards. Optware is expected to release a 200 GB disc in early June of and Maxell in September 2006 with a capacity of 300 GB and transfer rate of 20 MB/sec [3] [4].
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Holographic disks: standards with 200 and 300 GB storage are under development and prototypes expected in 2008
I've heard about Mac users waiting, but 5 years for most likely the first consumer device if lucky, 6 for probably first computer device. 2012.... yes exactly when I wanted to buy my next laptop after the next four I plan to purchase.
As I said they aren't attacking the Consumer market because they have no Backing. Who can beat Sony when Sony pay's best buy to Disply the blue rays and HD-DVD no longer is displayed?
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8370
This link says 2006
http://www.engadget.com/2005/04/18/inphase-announces-300gb-holographic-discs/
This says 2006 for 300 GBS/ 2009 for 1TB
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/24/maxell_holo_storage/
"Late 2006"
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/80850/holographic-discs-set-for-retail-next-year.html
2006...
http://www.techtree.com/techtree/jsp/article.jsp?article_id=69424&cat_id=581
2006...
http://www.layersmagazine.com/beta/article/holographic-discs-set-for-retail-next-year.html
2006...
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Optware-Announces-200GB-Holographic-Discs-for-2006-10859.shtml
2006 - for 200 gbs
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1785630,00.asp
2006...
http://www.computerworld.com/hardwaretopics/storage/story/0,10801,95446,00.html
2006... though this was written (2004) so...
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1311642.cms
2006...
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1821012,00.asp
2006..
From Wikipedia (your source) - "160 times the capacity of single-layer Blu-ray Discs, and about 8 times the capacity of standard computer hard drives with space that accounts for year 2006 standards. Optware is expected to release a 200 GB disc in early June of and Maxell in September 2006 with a capacity of 300 GB and transfer rate of 20 MB/sec [3] [4].
Rodimus Prime
Apr 17, 10:39 AM
While I know how to drive a car with a manual shifter, here's a BIG problem nowadays: the quality of the shifter has really gone downhill in recent years. http://www.en.kolobok.us/smiles/big_standart/negative.gif
Unless you're driving a BMW, Honda or Porsche, gear shifters on modern cars either are too "notchy" or overly-vague in terms of finding a gear, and the result is not very pleasant, especially in city driving.
Besides, automatics and dual-clutch gearboxes--thanks to modern computer controls--have gotten really good in recent years. This is especially true with automatics that sport six to eight forward gears, which allows for a lot smoother automatic shifts between gears during acceleration. I've test-driven a 2011 US-market Hyundai Elantra saloon with Hyundai's own six-speed automatic and note how smooth the shifts are even during hard acceleration.
What Hondas have good shifters???? Umm sorry but no. I have driving manual Honda's and several different years including the range that you called good (02-06) and still compared to others they sucked. My 2004 Nissan manual feel better and the Nissan is a little notchy but it has well defined gates. Honda manual just feel funny plus I hate how their clutch feels.
As for something us mortals can afford that I find has the best shifting feel is Mazda. Every one of those I have driving they have that silky smooth feel to it. I love it and has to be the best feeling shifter I have ever used.
Unless you're driving a BMW, Honda or Porsche, gear shifters on modern cars either are too "notchy" or overly-vague in terms of finding a gear, and the result is not very pleasant, especially in city driving.
Besides, automatics and dual-clutch gearboxes--thanks to modern computer controls--have gotten really good in recent years. This is especially true with automatics that sport six to eight forward gears, which allows for a lot smoother automatic shifts between gears during acceleration. I've test-driven a 2011 US-market Hyundai Elantra saloon with Hyundai's own six-speed automatic and note how smooth the shifts are even during hard acceleration.
What Hondas have good shifters???? Umm sorry but no. I have driving manual Honda's and several different years including the range that you called good (02-06) and still compared to others they sucked. My 2004 Nissan manual feel better and the Nissan is a little notchy but it has well defined gates. Honda manual just feel funny plus I hate how their clutch feels.
As for something us mortals can afford that I find has the best shifting feel is Mazda. Every one of those I have driving they have that silky smooth feel to it. I love it and has to be the best feeling shifter I have ever used.
MattyMac
Sep 7, 10:11 AM
5 more days!
Mac'nCheese
Apr 10, 09:55 AM
I had to learn how to drive a stick about a decade ago when we planned a trip to Ireland and found out that most, if not all, of the rental cars would be stick shifts. So, my first big stick shift experience was also on the other side of the road.
Panther71
Oct 21, 04:38 PM
I just received my Proporta aluminum-lined leather case. I got it from Amazon for $29.95 with free shipping. It is exactly what I was looking for in a case that will protect the screen when I have my Ipod Touch in my pocket. It is a quality built case at a very good price for a leather case.
bwintx
Jul 20, 06:58 AM
I bet that Vista will run on several year old machines. You might not get all the bells and whistles, but I don't have all the bells and whistles of Tiger on this Mac Mini of mine either. And since just about all OEM's wil preload Vista on their machines, the sales-numbers will be HUGE. And then we have those who upgrade their existing machines.
You are correct. Existing PCs will run Vista but without the Aqua-ripoff pretty interface. For the Aqua-ripoff (I refuse to call it anything else), that's where much more RAM and newer video cards come into play by necessity. So, essentially, you get two classes of Vista users (imagine having to write the "requirements" text for Windows software in the near-future; ugh), and a giant opportunity for the memory and video card companies, which are probably buying their magazine and Web banner ad space right now -- not that anybody should alert the media for such info.
You are correct. Existing PCs will run Vista but without the Aqua-ripoff pretty interface. For the Aqua-ripoff (I refuse to call it anything else), that's where much more RAM and newer video cards come into play by necessity. So, essentially, you get two classes of Vista users (imagine having to write the "requirements" text for Windows software in the near-future; ugh), and a giant opportunity for the memory and video card companies, which are probably buying their magazine and Web banner ad space right now -- not that anybody should alert the media for such info.
Evangelion
Aug 29, 11:16 AM
Nonono, Merom costs the same as Yonah's June price
points which are still here even with Merom out in the wild.
intel will sell yonahs for quite some time besides merom. why sell them when merom is better? answer: because they will sell them for lower price
points which are still here even with Merom out in the wild.
intel will sell yonahs for quite some time besides merom. why sell them when merom is better? answer: because they will sell them for lower price
Bubba Satori
Apr 2, 09:24 PM
your kidding right?
You're.
You're.
Don Kosak
May 2, 05:20 PM
I wonder if this means MacOS will end up with iOS-style "multi-tasking."
iOS style multitasking features (benefits) are indeed in Lion.
Applications written for Lion can "suspend and resume" without having to "save and close" documents. The reason the little light below running apps on the Dock was removed is that "running" is now more of a decision between the App and OS -- not so much the user. (APP - "Am I idle right now? Can I resume from this point very quickly? If so, I'll just suspend myself till the user or an event wakes me back up. No need to burn RAM or CPU, the user won't even notice I'm not here.)
There is no reason with modern computer architecture for humans to do memory management by getting involved with which programs are actually physically in memory/active. We have 7200rpm SATA3 or SSD drives, multicore processors with Gigahertz speeds, and Gigabytes of RAM...
The way we interact with Multitasking in Windows 7 and OS X Snow Leopard is based on the hardware limitations imposed by 640K RAM, 4.7 Megahertz single core processor, and Floppy Disks. Apple took the first brave step away from that with iOS. It's good to see it moving forward in Lion.
iOS style multitasking features (benefits) are indeed in Lion.
Applications written for Lion can "suspend and resume" without having to "save and close" documents. The reason the little light below running apps on the Dock was removed is that "running" is now more of a decision between the App and OS -- not so much the user. (APP - "Am I idle right now? Can I resume from this point very quickly? If so, I'll just suspend myself till the user or an event wakes me back up. No need to burn RAM or CPU, the user won't even notice I'm not here.)
There is no reason with modern computer architecture for humans to do memory management by getting involved with which programs are actually physically in memory/active. We have 7200rpm SATA3 or SSD drives, multicore processors with Gigahertz speeds, and Gigabytes of RAM...
The way we interact with Multitasking in Windows 7 and OS X Snow Leopard is based on the hardware limitations imposed by 640K RAM, 4.7 Megahertz single core processor, and Floppy Disks. Apple took the first brave step away from that with iOS. It's good to see it moving forward in Lion.
FoxyKaye
Jun 23, 12:00 PM
iOS on a real Mac seems about as pointless as Microsoft Bob on Windows.
Granted, there are some highly innovative aspects to iOS, and integrating some of these into a desktop computer OS would be beneficial.
But gods help us all of iOS and OS X merge at some point - as was pointed out on Slashdot just today, it would create a fully media DRM-locked, Apple-controlled application distribution center. Which would be very beneficial to Apple, but not so much to the consumer.
Although speculation that this will happen is rampant, as exemplified by the ARS Technica article today: http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/06/developers-expect-ios-and-mac-os-to-merge-over-time.ars
In the meantime, it has been well over a year since either the XServe or Mac Pro have seen an update (despite charging through the roof for last year's technology), and Apple hasn't said anything about 10.7. That should be enough of an indicator right there.
Granted, there are some highly innovative aspects to iOS, and integrating some of these into a desktop computer OS would be beneficial.
But gods help us all of iOS and OS X merge at some point - as was pointed out on Slashdot just today, it would create a fully media DRM-locked, Apple-controlled application distribution center. Which would be very beneficial to Apple, but not so much to the consumer.
Although speculation that this will happen is rampant, as exemplified by the ARS Technica article today: http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/06/developers-expect-ios-and-mac-os-to-merge-over-time.ars
In the meantime, it has been well over a year since either the XServe or Mac Pro have seen an update (despite charging through the roof for last year's technology), and Apple hasn't said anything about 10.7. That should be enough of an indicator right there.
macgeek18
Feb 18, 12:59 AM
Oh, it was mostly my media. I have a large collection of music/movies/tv shows and I can only fit a certain amount on my iPhone and iPad. I turned off my mac mini at home since I was going to be gone for 2 months here so I can't stream from that. Even if I could, my wifi here is terrible, Netflix is always poor quality and has a hard time keeping up with that. So I bought the macbook and a 1TB hard drive to install when I get back home and then I'm headed off again for my mobilization and then deployment in the summer. Just wanted to be able to take my whole library with me. The MBP will also be used for college when I get back from Afghanistan.
Wait..You said military school then you say deployment to Afghanistan? Do you mean bootamp or tech school? I'm confused. lol Btw which branch are you in?
Wait..You said military school then you say deployment to Afghanistan? Do you mean bootamp or tech school? I'm confused. lol Btw which branch are you in?
zv470
Jul 18, 02:13 AM
...ok, and what about an iTunes Music Store for New Zealand and all the other countries that are missing out? :eek: please :p
Lollypop
Aug 7, 01:46 AM
Maybe Xcode 3 or something will be heavily promoted.
I know I personally would love better SOAP integration with XCode. We use .NET at work all the time to write web services, and we end up using .NET clients running under parallels on our macs, because keeping the SOAP proxy stub code up-to-date is automatic with .NET....you have to go thru hell with Xcode. I think Apple will fill that gap with the new xcode (there were command line tools in the latest version).
I use to know my development talk, but not having done any coding in a few years my reaction to what you just said was: hu? :D
Obviously we will have the resolution independance in OS X 10.5. Probably some new security and new workgroup/networking enhancements. We probably can all agree one would be networked spotlight, if you are running 10.5 servers, the clients will ask the server to search its spotlight data for the same data the client is searching for, and give a combined response.....its the one thing of OS X Tiger I hated, the inability to search the network with the same ease.
I would love easier active directory integration, in windows is very easy, but doing it on a mac is a bit to much! Would like network spotlight without needing 10.5 server, in the home environment I can definately see the use for network search, but definately no 10.5 server!
We may also see a system wide Software Update now, which would really be nice. Letting 3rd party developers update their software with the same system.
Totally agreed, and with that rumored birrent support as well!
I'd also expect major updates to iChat.... probably MSN and Yahoo support, as well as VoIP.
iChat needs a upgrade, the only reason I ever use it is because Aduim doesnt do video!
edit: fixed spelling
I know I personally would love better SOAP integration with XCode. We use .NET at work all the time to write web services, and we end up using .NET clients running under parallels on our macs, because keeping the SOAP proxy stub code up-to-date is automatic with .NET....you have to go thru hell with Xcode. I think Apple will fill that gap with the new xcode (there were command line tools in the latest version).
I use to know my development talk, but not having done any coding in a few years my reaction to what you just said was: hu? :D
Obviously we will have the resolution independance in OS X 10.5. Probably some new security and new workgroup/networking enhancements. We probably can all agree one would be networked spotlight, if you are running 10.5 servers, the clients will ask the server to search its spotlight data for the same data the client is searching for, and give a combined response.....its the one thing of OS X Tiger I hated, the inability to search the network with the same ease.
I would love easier active directory integration, in windows is very easy, but doing it on a mac is a bit to much! Would like network spotlight without needing 10.5 server, in the home environment I can definately see the use for network search, but definately no 10.5 server!
We may also see a system wide Software Update now, which would really be nice. Letting 3rd party developers update their software with the same system.
Totally agreed, and with that rumored birrent support as well!
I'd also expect major updates to iChat.... probably MSN and Yahoo support, as well as VoIP.
iChat needs a upgrade, the only reason I ever use it is because Aduim doesnt do video!
edit: fixed spelling
Multimedia
Aug 25, 10:14 AM
I havent yet found a situation where the 1.66 Yonah in my mini is the problem. granted, I dont use photoshop and I have the full whack of 2GB RAM - my beef with the mini is when I boot into 'doze and wanna play games - that GMA950 just can't cut the mustard.
So what would make me rush out and buy a new mini (and put this one under the TV) would be a faster graphics processor.
Cant see that happening any time soon tho.I can.I agree to that. I got the Mini thinking the GPU couldn't be that bad. I was really wrong. If they up the GPU I'll buy another one and be happy. If not - I'll live with the underpowered video of the mini until Apple finally releases a headless iMac (or something equivalent).Only thing holding back better GPU in mini and MacBooks is Intel. Apple needs to stick with IG for cost reasons. Just wating for Intel to start shipping better GPU so they can improve that ASAP. I'm with you guys. Waiting for that to improve as well. But may happen with this refresh. Don't know the IG roadmap so well. Read here the 965 set is delayed until early 2007.
Can anyone here confirm where we're at and going how soon on the Intel Integrated GPU front?Oh as a side note. The 965 chipset which features the GMA 3000 or GMA X3000 will indeed have more features (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2837), but preliminary benchmarks (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pconline.com.cn%2Fmarket%2Fsh%2Fshoppingguide%2Fchangshang%2F0608%2F844 892.html&langpair=zh-CN%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8) show it performing even worse than the GMA 950.
Edit: And you may be quite right on your prediction of the 965 chipset. Due to a design flaw (http://digitimes.com/mobos/a20060731A5025.html) in the integrated graphics subsystem (GMA X3000/3000) the availability of the chips has been delayed to mid August, making them just in time for new Mini's in September.Fantastic.
So what would make me rush out and buy a new mini (and put this one under the TV) would be a faster graphics processor.
Cant see that happening any time soon tho.I can.I agree to that. I got the Mini thinking the GPU couldn't be that bad. I was really wrong. If they up the GPU I'll buy another one and be happy. If not - I'll live with the underpowered video of the mini until Apple finally releases a headless iMac (or something equivalent).Only thing holding back better GPU in mini and MacBooks is Intel. Apple needs to stick with IG for cost reasons. Just wating for Intel to start shipping better GPU so they can improve that ASAP. I'm with you guys. Waiting for that to improve as well. But may happen with this refresh. Don't know the IG roadmap so well. Read here the 965 set is delayed until early 2007.
Can anyone here confirm where we're at and going how soon on the Intel Integrated GPU front?Oh as a side note. The 965 chipset which features the GMA 3000 or GMA X3000 will indeed have more features (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2837), but preliminary benchmarks (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pconline.com.cn%2Fmarket%2Fsh%2Fshoppingguide%2Fchangshang%2F0608%2F844 892.html&langpair=zh-CN%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8) show it performing even worse than the GMA 950.
Edit: And you may be quite right on your prediction of the 965 chipset. Due to a design flaw (http://digitimes.com/mobos/a20060731A5025.html) in the integrated graphics subsystem (GMA X3000/3000) the availability of the chips has been delayed to mid August, making them just in time for new Mini's in September.Fantastic.
Yakuza
Nov 26, 04:50 AM
Hei
Capuccino from the auto vending machine from work. 0.19$cents
Capuccino from the auto vending machine from work. 0.19$cents
Earendil
Nov 28, 10:32 AM
Well, you just made my point better than me. Of the millions of Macs sold, how many are to customers needing correct color and really care about the finer details of the monitor's specs?
*snip*
I have both the Dell and the Apple cinema display 20".
*snip*
But who cares? A very small percentage of Apple's market cares or could even tell the difference.
And that percentage shoots up when you take into account only the Pro style Towers. And it's a shame your Cinema display is showing age sooner than I would think it should. Still, in my own experience with color reproduction and accuracy in Photography, the cinema displays I have used have exceeded my Dell 2005. In regular computer use I wouldn't be able to tell them apart (aside from the back light bleed on the Dell).
If Apple has been all about getting "switchers" and trying to persuade Windows users that Apple and OS X is better, than why is Apple ignoring that market with their monitor offering? You said so yourself, these are "PRO" monitors. Because they want you to buy iMacs. That's an extremely limited choice if you ask me. Oh, I can hear the fan boys now, screw you if you don't care about color seperation and the finer details of image quality. Go buy your $hi+ dell and get off of this board.
Do you see any fan boys making posts here? I see some people here that are ignorant of the way monitors work and yet are trying to pass opinions on Apple/Dell/LCD market as gold though.
That's the issue though, currently Apple doesn't sell a consumer computer that either doesn't already come with a monitor, or where you aren't supposed to already have a monitor.
the MacBook and iMac both have screens built in, the MacMini, if you saw any of it's advertisements or presentation, is meant as a direct replacement for a PC box. i.e. bring your own mouse, keyboard and monitor. I as well as another guy have already said this though.
It's a problem, still, I want too want Apple to sell a consumer level monitor. But Apple certainly doesn't have to enter that market if they don't want to. Besides, the market for a cheap 17" monitor is TINY. You're talking Mini owners (who don't already have a monitor) maybe a few laptop owners, and...? G5 owners? If you're plugin a $150 LCD up to a G5 you should be shot :P Unless you are running three at once or something.
Apple sells a consumer mini, but not a consumer monitor? Why not? You all are hammering away at the professional quality of this monitor. But I have both the Dell and the Apple and they look about the same to me. Actually, before Apple updated their monitors the 20" looked terrible next to the Dell. (I have both generations) And are the "Pros" who need that color perfection buying 20" monitors? Probably not. 23" and 30" would be my guess. So why have a high priced 20" display?
Many professionals run Duel 20" screens. In fact I see this setup far more often that a 30" screen.
So all this hupla about color correction is making my point. Apple wants you to buy an iMac and they keep their monitors price high and limit their computer offerings to give you the incentive to buy one.
wow wow wow. You just me on that logic jump. Apple sells some high end systems to Professions in industry that demand at least a certain standard. Apple also sells other computers. Apple Sells monitors that are aiming at (hitting is another matter) those professionals that demand a certain standard. Apple doesn't currently sell any other monitors. How is that proof that Apple is trying to personally screw you out of your cash?
Since that's all they sell they are making a good profit off of them. Don't get me wrong, they are nice computers, beautiful even, but what if I wan't something more flexable? Maybe a little more expandible. My choice is a $600 mini (not too flexable or expandable) or a $2400 Mac Pro. Big Difference. Oh, that $1499 price spot fits nicely with an iMac however. See my point?
Yeah, there is a gap, and I do see it as a problem. No one in the entire thread is disagreeing with that. You ideas on why there is a gap is viewed a little bit more negative than I would, but whatever.
If they lower the price of the 20" any more it will cut into their sales of 20" iMacs. And that is why it's hovering close to $700 and not $200 or $300 cheaper.
Another huge jump in logic based on no facts and stretched assumptions. Do you know what Apple takes home at the end of the day from each monitor sale, each iMac sale, and each Mini sale? Can you provide that data to back up any of your conclusions? It sure would go a long way in getting anyone to side with you on that point. However, until you do, I'm going to say this one more time:
Cinema Display = Pro quality Display (I don't give a hoot if your eyes can't see it, the components alone show it, and that is what cost money to make not your eye sight)
Pro Quality = not cheap, don't go looking for a $200 monitor for pro work.
And for the last time, I'm still waiting for someone to show me a display that matches the Cinemas tech specs and qualifications and also cost downwards in the $400 range that people keep speaking about. Because until someone does, I'm inclined to believe, based on my own looking, that Apple is right with the industry on this one (or close) and all our whining on cost means jack.
So, comfort yourself all you want that you have a "pro" quality monitor. If that makes you feel better parting with $300 then go for it.
In light of that little sarcastc jab, the irony is that you are one of, if not the only user, to have admitted to owning a 20" Cinema display in this thread so far :rolleyes:
[quote]I doubt you could tell the differnce with both monitors sitting side by side. I have both and I can't realy see a $200 - $300 price justification, at least at the low end. Oh, I'm just a poor consumer, not a "pro", so I should go buy my crappy Dell and be happy. Right?
I'll just quote myself on this one...
[QUOTE=Earendil]You seem to be coming at me as if I stand on some high ground, when in fact I own (as stated in my signature) a 20" wide Dell monitor
So just trust me when I say that the difference in my Photographs, and Photo editing on my Dell vs an Apple monitor is different, and a noticeable difference not just in color, but in back lighting and change in color based on viewing angle. When I'm surfing the web I don't notice/care, or playing games, or just about anything else. And since I don't make money on my photos, or do too much printing, I went with the Dell because the price/benefits ratio did not justify the Apple monitor. I wish Apple had provided a consumer level monitor for me to buy, it would go far better with my Powerbook, but they didn't. I'm not going to discount their current line up just because I can't afford it, and I don't think you should discount it just because you don't understand it technically.
But if you had been following the thread you'd know that about me already...
But if Apple really want's to get people to switch in larger numbers they need to offer a little more choice at a competitive price. A nice quality 20" monitor competitvly priced to go with that mini or a mid-range tower. I'm asking Apple to drop their price on their monitors $200 and offer a $1200 - $1500 tower. Is that asking too much?
No, you are asking for two very different things here.
1. You are asking Apple to produce a consumer level monitor that you can afford and falls in line with the market. I think everyone agrees with this idea, whether there is a large enough market for Apple to justify it (only Aple costumers would consider them) is up for debate.
and...
2. You are asking Apple to drop the price on their Pro displays without giving a reason (all your reasons apply to a consumer LCD), nor have you provided a similarly speced display to show that Apple is out of line with it's pricing.
There are large difference between a Mini and a G5. Just because most people wouldn't notice it doesn't mean it isn't there. Just relax and trust me that in two properly functioning displays, Apple's monitors are very good, and imho should never be compared to Apple's displays unless you are trying to convince a consumer (who can't tell the difference) not to buy it and buy an alternative display. I have done this before. Just like you'd never compare a Mini and a G5 unless grandma was thinking about buying a G5 to surf the web with...
~Tyler
*snip*
I have both the Dell and the Apple cinema display 20".
*snip*
But who cares? A very small percentage of Apple's market cares or could even tell the difference.
And that percentage shoots up when you take into account only the Pro style Towers. And it's a shame your Cinema display is showing age sooner than I would think it should. Still, in my own experience with color reproduction and accuracy in Photography, the cinema displays I have used have exceeded my Dell 2005. In regular computer use I wouldn't be able to tell them apart (aside from the back light bleed on the Dell).
If Apple has been all about getting "switchers" and trying to persuade Windows users that Apple and OS X is better, than why is Apple ignoring that market with their monitor offering? You said so yourself, these are "PRO" monitors. Because they want you to buy iMacs. That's an extremely limited choice if you ask me. Oh, I can hear the fan boys now, screw you if you don't care about color seperation and the finer details of image quality. Go buy your $hi+ dell and get off of this board.
Do you see any fan boys making posts here? I see some people here that are ignorant of the way monitors work and yet are trying to pass opinions on Apple/Dell/LCD market as gold though.
That's the issue though, currently Apple doesn't sell a consumer computer that either doesn't already come with a monitor, or where you aren't supposed to already have a monitor.
the MacBook and iMac both have screens built in, the MacMini, if you saw any of it's advertisements or presentation, is meant as a direct replacement for a PC box. i.e. bring your own mouse, keyboard and monitor. I as well as another guy have already said this though.
It's a problem, still, I want too want Apple to sell a consumer level monitor. But Apple certainly doesn't have to enter that market if they don't want to. Besides, the market for a cheap 17" monitor is TINY. You're talking Mini owners (who don't already have a monitor) maybe a few laptop owners, and...? G5 owners? If you're plugin a $150 LCD up to a G5 you should be shot :P Unless you are running three at once or something.
Apple sells a consumer mini, but not a consumer monitor? Why not? You all are hammering away at the professional quality of this monitor. But I have both the Dell and the Apple and they look about the same to me. Actually, before Apple updated their monitors the 20" looked terrible next to the Dell. (I have both generations) And are the "Pros" who need that color perfection buying 20" monitors? Probably not. 23" and 30" would be my guess. So why have a high priced 20" display?
Many professionals run Duel 20" screens. In fact I see this setup far more often that a 30" screen.
So all this hupla about color correction is making my point. Apple wants you to buy an iMac and they keep their monitors price high and limit their computer offerings to give you the incentive to buy one.
wow wow wow. You just me on that logic jump. Apple sells some high end systems to Professions in industry that demand at least a certain standard. Apple also sells other computers. Apple Sells monitors that are aiming at (hitting is another matter) those professionals that demand a certain standard. Apple doesn't currently sell any other monitors. How is that proof that Apple is trying to personally screw you out of your cash?
Since that's all they sell they are making a good profit off of them. Don't get me wrong, they are nice computers, beautiful even, but what if I wan't something more flexable? Maybe a little more expandible. My choice is a $600 mini (not too flexable or expandable) or a $2400 Mac Pro. Big Difference. Oh, that $1499 price spot fits nicely with an iMac however. See my point?
Yeah, there is a gap, and I do see it as a problem. No one in the entire thread is disagreeing with that. You ideas on why there is a gap is viewed a little bit more negative than I would, but whatever.
If they lower the price of the 20" any more it will cut into their sales of 20" iMacs. And that is why it's hovering close to $700 and not $200 or $300 cheaper.
Another huge jump in logic based on no facts and stretched assumptions. Do you know what Apple takes home at the end of the day from each monitor sale, each iMac sale, and each Mini sale? Can you provide that data to back up any of your conclusions? It sure would go a long way in getting anyone to side with you on that point. However, until you do, I'm going to say this one more time:
Cinema Display = Pro quality Display (I don't give a hoot if your eyes can't see it, the components alone show it, and that is what cost money to make not your eye sight)
Pro Quality = not cheap, don't go looking for a $200 monitor for pro work.
And for the last time, I'm still waiting for someone to show me a display that matches the Cinemas tech specs and qualifications and also cost downwards in the $400 range that people keep speaking about. Because until someone does, I'm inclined to believe, based on my own looking, that Apple is right with the industry on this one (or close) and all our whining on cost means jack.
So, comfort yourself all you want that you have a "pro" quality monitor. If that makes you feel better parting with $300 then go for it.
In light of that little sarcastc jab, the irony is that you are one of, if not the only user, to have admitted to owning a 20" Cinema display in this thread so far :rolleyes:
[quote]I doubt you could tell the differnce with both monitors sitting side by side. I have both and I can't realy see a $200 - $300 price justification, at least at the low end. Oh, I'm just a poor consumer, not a "pro", so I should go buy my crappy Dell and be happy. Right?
I'll just quote myself on this one...
[QUOTE=Earendil]You seem to be coming at me as if I stand on some high ground, when in fact I own (as stated in my signature) a 20" wide Dell monitor
So just trust me when I say that the difference in my Photographs, and Photo editing on my Dell vs an Apple monitor is different, and a noticeable difference not just in color, but in back lighting and change in color based on viewing angle. When I'm surfing the web I don't notice/care, or playing games, or just about anything else. And since I don't make money on my photos, or do too much printing, I went with the Dell because the price/benefits ratio did not justify the Apple monitor. I wish Apple had provided a consumer level monitor for me to buy, it would go far better with my Powerbook, but they didn't. I'm not going to discount their current line up just because I can't afford it, and I don't think you should discount it just because you don't understand it technically.
But if you had been following the thread you'd know that about me already...
But if Apple really want's to get people to switch in larger numbers they need to offer a little more choice at a competitive price. A nice quality 20" monitor competitvly priced to go with that mini or a mid-range tower. I'm asking Apple to drop their price on their monitors $200 and offer a $1200 - $1500 tower. Is that asking too much?
No, you are asking for two very different things here.
1. You are asking Apple to produce a consumer level monitor that you can afford and falls in line with the market. I think everyone agrees with this idea, whether there is a large enough market for Apple to justify it (only Aple costumers would consider them) is up for debate.
and...
2. You are asking Apple to drop the price on their Pro displays without giving a reason (all your reasons apply to a consumer LCD), nor have you provided a similarly speced display to show that Apple is out of line with it's pricing.
There are large difference between a Mini and a G5. Just because most people wouldn't notice it doesn't mean it isn't there. Just relax and trust me that in two properly functioning displays, Apple's monitors are very good, and imho should never be compared to Apple's displays unless you are trying to convince a consumer (who can't tell the difference) not to buy it and buy an alternative display. I have done this before. Just like you'd never compare a Mini and a G5 unless grandma was thinking about buying a G5 to surf the web with...
~Tyler