SteveRichardson
Jul 27, 10:27 AM
MBPs the end of august? I START school in the end of august.
ughghghghghghg
ughghghghghghg
filmguy
Aug 17, 07:16 PM
From now on, whatever processor Apple has, Windows has, and the differences will come down mostly on the OS.
I agree with your post and I'm also a PC-TO-MAC CONVERT. :)
The difference is going to come down to OS, as well as, the overall design of a machine and how well it's engineered. Apple seem to engineer machines of high quality, from the mere fact that their machines stand the test of time e.g. the other day I was working on a G4, on FCP 5.1, editing and rendering HDV footage in its native format, HDV1080i50 (Australian Sony camera). Although it wasn't the quickest performance, it held its own.
Also, I'm an I.T. guy transitioning to film (pre-prod, shoot, and post-prod) and the whole Mac experience is different from a PC, from a creative workflow point-of-view. I bought MY FIRST MAC this week - Mac Pro, 3 Ghz, 2 Gig RAM, 250 Gig HD, standard video card, and previously owned 2 x 300 Gig Ext Maxtor 7200 RPM. I also bought AE 7, Adobe Web Bundle and FCP Studio 5.1. I shoot with the Sony Z1P and will soon have some sample work on the web.
Lastly, OS X will always be superior to Windows based on the fact that it's built on a UNIX foundation. If I'm not mistaken, Windows code has just built on top of existing code year-after-year. :mad: I think the OS X was a fresh build.
I agree with your post and I'm also a PC-TO-MAC CONVERT. :)
The difference is going to come down to OS, as well as, the overall design of a machine and how well it's engineered. Apple seem to engineer machines of high quality, from the mere fact that their machines stand the test of time e.g. the other day I was working on a G4, on FCP 5.1, editing and rendering HDV footage in its native format, HDV1080i50 (Australian Sony camera). Although it wasn't the quickest performance, it held its own.
Also, I'm an I.T. guy transitioning to film (pre-prod, shoot, and post-prod) and the whole Mac experience is different from a PC, from a creative workflow point-of-view. I bought MY FIRST MAC this week - Mac Pro, 3 Ghz, 2 Gig RAM, 250 Gig HD, standard video card, and previously owned 2 x 300 Gig Ext Maxtor 7200 RPM. I also bought AE 7, Adobe Web Bundle and FCP Studio 5.1. I shoot with the Sony Z1P and will soon have some sample work on the web.
Lastly, OS X will always be superior to Windows based on the fact that it's built on a UNIX foundation. If I'm not mistaken, Windows code has just built on top of existing code year-after-year. :mad: I think the OS X was a fresh build.
TheQuestion
Mar 26, 12:22 AM
Can't believe it's anywhere near GM time. Way too many bugs and inconsistencies in behavior. New networking tools in Server have to be implemented now that SMB is being canned - that's not a minor addition. Calling it a release candidate is a stretch, but calling it GM is just plain crazy.
bretm
Aug 17, 12:07 AM
Was there any doubt it wouldn't be a lot faster? I mean, I know it was already plenty fast, but come on...
But it's not faster. Slower actually than the G5 at some apps. What's everyone looking at anyway? I'm pretty unimpressed. Other than Adobe's usage of cache (AE is a cache lover and will use all of it, hence the faster performance).
But the actual xeon processors are only as fast as the G5 processors. Look at the average specs... the 2.66 machines are only a teeny bit faster than the G5s except in a few apps like filemaker. But not in the biggies like Final Cut Pro where it actually appears that mhz for mhz the G5 is a faster machine hands down!
But it's not faster. Slower actually than the G5 at some apps. What's everyone looking at anyway? I'm pretty unimpressed. Other than Adobe's usage of cache (AE is a cache lover and will use all of it, hence the faster performance).
But the actual xeon processors are only as fast as the G5 processors. Look at the average specs... the 2.66 machines are only a teeny bit faster than the G5s except in a few apps like filemaker. But not in the biggies like Final Cut Pro where it actually appears that mhz for mhz the G5 is a faster machine hands down!
IceMacMac
Apr 10, 08:47 PM
The pro of today is no longer the pro of the past decade. Pro is a far broader term in 2011. Nearly anyone could be a 'pro' with a little interest, work, and dedication.
To me the term denotes a person who is gaining a sizeable portion of their income from video production...and whom is talented enough to woo paying clients.
So in my opinion the meaning for "Pro" has changed little.
To me the term denotes a person who is gaining a sizeable portion of their income from video production...and whom is talented enough to woo paying clients.
So in my opinion the meaning for "Pro" has changed little.
Cinch
Aug 27, 02:39 PM
That doesn't make sense, marketing wise. If they do anything to the MacBooks and iMacs they would at least bump their speeds. It doesn't matter f the 2GHz Merom chip is faster than the 2GHz Yonah chip, the consumers don't give a crap about the chip... they want to see "them GHz numbers" go up.
The consequence is a laptop with a power cord attach to them feeding the insatiable appetite of the thermo nuclear reactor we call the CPU. For the love of reason and common sense, why can't Apple make a laptop with a day worth of battery powered. How about OLED display and multicore chip running at much lower frequency. Enough with the Ghz BS; what is the different between a 2.16Ghz and a 2.33 Ghz processors again?
Cinch
The consequence is a laptop with a power cord attach to them feeding the insatiable appetite of the thermo nuclear reactor we call the CPU. For the love of reason and common sense, why can't Apple make a laptop with a day worth of battery powered. How about OLED display and multicore chip running at much lower frequency. Enough with the Ghz BS; what is the different between a 2.16Ghz and a 2.33 Ghz processors again?
Cinch
MACRUS
Apr 10, 03:53 AM
It's not like they threatened anyone. They likely went to the organizers and said "We'd like to make a really cool announcement at your event but we'd need most of your presentation and sponsorship space to do it." SuperMeet said sure, Apple paid, and here we are. It's not like the other sponsors didn't get their money back (I'm assuming.)
I am Sorry but I have to say something here. your ignorance amuses me.
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I am Sorry but I have to say something here. your ignorance amuses me.
Reach9
Apr 11, 02:28 PM
I don't think that's the market Apple wants. They already have the #1 selling smart phone. They make more profit than all competitors combined off of the iPhone. The Cell phone market is very fluid and Apple knows it just has to keep producing the coolest and more desired phone and they will always have a decent share of the market and make tons of money.
in the mean time, Moto, Samsung, HTC, LG and others all battle it out with the same OS and dropping prices to get market share. A race to the bottom strategy that I'm not sure will last forever.
All Apple needs to do is keep the "coolness" coming. Reward us with nice iOS updates and keep us happy with the best support in the market.
Are you talking about hardware? Because software wise Android is the #1 selling. It has a greater market share than iOS. (only because there are more of them though).
in the mean time, Moto, Samsung, HTC, LG and others all battle it out with the same OS and dropping prices to get market share. A race to the bottom strategy that I'm not sure will last forever.
All Apple needs to do is keep the "coolness" coming. Reward us with nice iOS updates and keep us happy with the best support in the market.
Are you talking about hardware? Because software wise Android is the #1 selling. It has a greater market share than iOS. (only because there are more of them though).
cult hero
Mar 26, 12:32 AM
Can't believe it's anywhere near GM time. Way too many bugs and inconsistencies in behavior. New networking tools in Server have to be implemented now that SMB is being canned - that's not a minor addition. Calling it a release candidate is a stretch, but calling it GM is just plain crazy.
The GPL3 issue with Samba has been around for a LONG time. The announcement was made in 2007. I have some feeling that Apple's been brewing their Samba replacement for a long time. (Although I don't think this is a GM either.)
About the only thing that I find disappointing about this release is the lack of a new filesystem. However, that might just be because coming from a Linux background I probably payed WAY more attention to filesystems than most people.
The GPL3 issue with Samba has been around for a LONG time. The announcement was made in 2007. I have some feeling that Apple's been brewing their Samba replacement for a long time. (Although I don't think this is a GM either.)
About the only thing that I find disappointing about this release is the lack of a new filesystem. However, that might just be because coming from a Linux background I probably payed WAY more attention to filesystems than most people.
cloudnine
Nov 28, 07:27 PM
"It would be a nice idea."
What does that mean? I have lots of nice ideas for getting money when I didn't do anything.
By this logic, shouldn't Universal also get royalties for every CD player, Cassette player, and radio sold?
Might as well cash in on the giant cash cow that is the iPod :rolleyes:
My thoughts exactly... "oh, well this ipod thing plays music and it's the best mp3 player out there... how can we get this to benefit us for absolutely no reason?"
asinine.
What does that mean? I have lots of nice ideas for getting money when I didn't do anything.
By this logic, shouldn't Universal also get royalties for every CD player, Cassette player, and radio sold?
Might as well cash in on the giant cash cow that is the iPod :rolleyes:
My thoughts exactly... "oh, well this ipod thing plays music and it's the best mp3 player out there... how can we get this to benefit us for absolutely no reason?"
asinine.
Eraserhead
Mar 23, 01:50 AM
These things don't travel very fast.
I was having a look on Google and a container ship only takes 20 days or so to get from China to Europe, and a military ship would be faster - so you don't need that much time to get ships into place.
And China to Europe by ship is a long way (http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=hkg-sin-trv-dxb-cai-gib-sou&MS=wls&DU=km).
I was having a look on Google and a container ship only takes 20 days or so to get from China to Europe, and a military ship would be faster - so you don't need that much time to get ships into place.
And China to Europe by ship is a long way (http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=hkg-sin-trv-dxb-cai-gib-sou&MS=wls&DU=km).
aswitcher
Jul 20, 04:55 PM
First rev prices for any such beasts are going to be "excessive"
inkswamp
Jul 27, 02:22 PM
but is still more productive because it handles more calculations per clock cycle
I'm no processor geek. I have a basic understanding of the terminology and how things work so correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this one of the advantages that the PPC had over Intel chips? Does this mean Intel is moving toward shorter pipes? Are we talking more instructions per clock cycle or what? What does "calculations" mean in this context?
I'm no processor geek. I have a basic understanding of the terminology and how things work so correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this one of the advantages that the PPC had over Intel chips? Does this mean Intel is moving toward shorter pipes? Are we talking more instructions per clock cycle or what? What does "calculations" mean in this context?
yadmonkey
Aug 11, 03:17 PM
Apple's reasons for being secretive about product releases don't apply to their potential phone because they don't have a current product which they want people to buy in the meantime. In fact, this time around, it'll be advantageous to Apple for people to know it's coming, as they may hold out for one instead of getting something else. Once there is an iPhone, then they will probably be secretive about the next version.
Some_Big_Spoon
Aug 15, 05:11 PM
Well, we all knew that the G5 isn't a "bad" chip necessarily.. It's older tech, and I think, wasn't really meant for this kind of work (non-server applications).
Preaching to the choir am I?
I would have thought that the Final Cut Pro benchmark would have really blown away the G5 - not so much, right?
Awesome on FileMaker and I can't wait to see how this stuff runs Adobe PS Natively.
Preaching to the choir am I?
I would have thought that the Final Cut Pro benchmark would have really blown away the G5 - not so much, right?
Awesome on FileMaker and I can't wait to see how this stuff runs Adobe PS Natively.
Eidorian
Jul 14, 05:43 PM
Interesting question, but I don't think any of us here will have the answers.
PCs don't use EFI. I don't know if a generic AGP/PCIe card can be initialized by EFI, or if the card will need some EFI code to be on-board.EFI can emulate BIOS though. It's basically what Boot Camp and the original Windows hack did.
As for OS X, I think we can be fairly certain that Apple will only bundle drivers for cards that Apple sells. If you install a third-party card, they will probably tell you that you'll need a driver from the card's manufacturer - that's what they've historically told customers.I've rarely noticed third party hardware that requires drivers. Most of them simply say "Requires OS 8.x, 9.x., 10.x". Of course newer things like 802.11g and USB 2.0 are going to need a version of OS X.
Now, assuming that the Mac firmware (including whatever EFI drivers they include in it) is capable of initializing a generic video card, then there should be no need for more than a device driver, which the card vendors can probably provide, if they are so inclined. If the cards will require special ROM code for EFI, however, then we're back to the same problem that plagued the PPC systems.You don't need a special ROM code for the auxiliary hardware. The video BIOS doesn't change when you boot between OS X and Windows.
PCs don't use EFI. I don't know if a generic AGP/PCIe card can be initialized by EFI, or if the card will need some EFI code to be on-board.EFI can emulate BIOS though. It's basically what Boot Camp and the original Windows hack did.
As for OS X, I think we can be fairly certain that Apple will only bundle drivers for cards that Apple sells. If you install a third-party card, they will probably tell you that you'll need a driver from the card's manufacturer - that's what they've historically told customers.I've rarely noticed third party hardware that requires drivers. Most of them simply say "Requires OS 8.x, 9.x., 10.x". Of course newer things like 802.11g and USB 2.0 are going to need a version of OS X.
Now, assuming that the Mac firmware (including whatever EFI drivers they include in it) is capable of initializing a generic video card, then there should be no need for more than a device driver, which the card vendors can probably provide, if they are so inclined. If the cards will require special ROM code for EFI, however, then we're back to the same problem that plagued the PPC systems.You don't need a special ROM code for the auxiliary hardware. The video BIOS doesn't change when you boot between OS X and Windows.
drsmithy
Sep 13, 09:08 PM
Would Windows use the extra 4 cores?
Yes. Windows NT was running on machines with eight processors several years before OS X was even released.
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Yes. Windows NT was running on machines with eight processors several years before OS X was even released.
IceMacMac
Apr 7, 04:38 AM
Everything depends on your work and needs right? For me...I'm short format and tweak every frame.
In terms of full disclosure I own FCP 4 suite and CS 5 master suite and own all the major Apple products (hardware and software). I also run Windows 7 in bootcamp.
Short format work is all about After Effects. Motion is 5 years behind and offers an incomplete feature set in comparison. After Effects marries up well with the tools from big 3d players, like Maxon and C4D. Its a great pipeline.
I'll watch with interest the announcements next week, but the release of an "iMovie Pro" won't interest me...and it seems like that's where Apple is headed. They now are fixated on Consumers Lite and Consumers Plus.
Apple is also doing everything to push me away from it's platform, with it's anti-Flash crusade, and it's complete inability to support Any (I mean ANY of the top 5-7) professional GPUs.
For the serious Pro Apple is living on borrowed time and the Steve Jobs reality-distortion field is weakening. Redmond is calling. Increasingly serious content professionals are listening. I never imagined these words coming from my mouth. But it's the truth.
In terms of full disclosure I own FCP 4 suite and CS 5 master suite and own all the major Apple products (hardware and software). I also run Windows 7 in bootcamp.
Short format work is all about After Effects. Motion is 5 years behind and offers an incomplete feature set in comparison. After Effects marries up well with the tools from big 3d players, like Maxon and C4D. Its a great pipeline.
I'll watch with interest the announcements next week, but the release of an "iMovie Pro" won't interest me...and it seems like that's where Apple is headed. They now are fixated on Consumers Lite and Consumers Plus.
Apple is also doing everything to push me away from it's platform, with it's anti-Flash crusade, and it's complete inability to support Any (I mean ANY of the top 5-7) professional GPUs.
For the serious Pro Apple is living on borrowed time and the Steve Jobs reality-distortion field is weakening. Redmond is calling. Increasingly serious content professionals are listening. I never imagined these words coming from my mouth. But it's the truth.
yoak
Apr 6, 07:31 AM
Yup I guess as we deliver full "uncompressed" HD via HDCAM SR mainly our needs a rather different. To me Blu-ray is the worst of all formats fairly big cumbersome files that are still to compressed to be useful to any one professionally, and not small enough to simply chuck around on thumb drives.....
We don�t even have to go to HDCAM SR for delivery anymore. On our latest project we just brought a hard drive with the masters (in ProRes) and did a transfer right at the broadcast facility. That was nice.
I do see your point on the blu-ray file size though.
But when the promo department at the same broadcaster wanted to look at the programs to plan the promotion of the series it would be nice to drop them a blu-ray, knowing they would be able to watch it on any player.
EDIT: I do have to say it�s not often I miss the need for blu-ray, but it certainly do happen
We don�t even have to go to HDCAM SR for delivery anymore. On our latest project we just brought a hard drive with the masters (in ProRes) and did a transfer right at the broadcast facility. That was nice.
I do see your point on the blu-ray file size though.
But when the promo department at the same broadcaster wanted to look at the programs to plan the promotion of the series it would be nice to drop them a blu-ray, knowing they would be able to watch it on any player.
EDIT: I do have to say it�s not often I miss the need for blu-ray, but it certainly do happen
Stella
Aug 6, 08:24 AM
Thats great news. I was wondering if a 6 week old machine was going to be left in the dust by the new chips. Santa Rosa april 2007?
Another sad person who is worried about their machines not being top of the line :-\
Its a computer, you should expect your machine to be superceded by another model in a matter of weeks / months.
Apple are a business and not to make you feel, somehow, superior due to your computer.
Another sad person who is worried about their machines not being top of the line :-\
Its a computer, you should expect your machine to be superceded by another model in a matter of weeks / months.
Apple are a business and not to make you feel, somehow, superior due to your computer.
epitaphic
Aug 19, 05:53 PM
And I'm not convinced this is only an application problem. When I run Handbrake on the Quad G5 alone it uses just over two cores 203%
So what happened to:
Both Toast and Handbrake can use 4 cores EACH
Looking at the handbrake forums, speeds seem to vary drastically between users with the same machine. Definitely seems to be affected by whatever else you have running or configured in the OS or otherwise. I suppose the "cleanest" install to test is in the Apple store (I'm just assuming they do a clean ghost copy at shutdown or end of day?)
When I ran tests on the Mac Pro at the Apple Store last Saturday between Toast and/or Handbrake, their use of more cores alone and together was much better.
So your benchmarks show the Mac Pro using 15-33% less CPU than the G5? There's no doubt that Woodcrest is a superior chip architecture to the G5 (one would hope after 3 years) and so that's why you're seeing more FPS inspite of less CPU use. But why does it use less cores though? Seems like either its a software problem OR some hardware is being maxed (I/O or FSB perhaps?)
So would it be correct to say that the only app that is even remotely "Quadcore aware" is Toast? It seems like by the time professional apps are made to take advantage of 4 cores we'll probably be on more than 8! :eek:
If only they could build something in the CPU itself that delegates tasks to n cores, we'd all be sorted. :)
So what happened to:
Both Toast and Handbrake can use 4 cores EACH
Looking at the handbrake forums, speeds seem to vary drastically between users with the same machine. Definitely seems to be affected by whatever else you have running or configured in the OS or otherwise. I suppose the "cleanest" install to test is in the Apple store (I'm just assuming they do a clean ghost copy at shutdown or end of day?)
When I ran tests on the Mac Pro at the Apple Store last Saturday between Toast and/or Handbrake, their use of more cores alone and together was much better.
So your benchmarks show the Mac Pro using 15-33% less CPU than the G5? There's no doubt that Woodcrest is a superior chip architecture to the G5 (one would hope after 3 years) and so that's why you're seeing more FPS inspite of less CPU use. But why does it use less cores though? Seems like either its a software problem OR some hardware is being maxed (I/O or FSB perhaps?)
So would it be correct to say that the only app that is even remotely "Quadcore aware" is Toast? It seems like by the time professional apps are made to take advantage of 4 cores we'll probably be on more than 8! :eek:
If only they could build something in the CPU itself that delegates tasks to n cores, we'd all be sorted. :)
Cheffy Dave
Mar 25, 10:44 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8G4)
Bullsh|t. If Apple is really done with Lion, then they should only be charging $29 for it (if that), like 10.6. More confusing scrollbars, tiny window controls and a better graphics/OGL support...add in the touch-screen readiness and you might have a quick $29 update.
STOP!There is always WINDOZE!:rolleyes:
Bullsh|t. If Apple is really done with Lion, then they should only be charging $29 for it (if that), like 10.6. More confusing scrollbars, tiny window controls and a better graphics/OGL support...add in the touch-screen readiness and you might have a quick $29 update.
STOP!There is always WINDOZE!:rolleyes:
toddybody
Apr 6, 02:59 PM
Funny, and true.
By the same token, if I explicitly told my wife I wanted a Xoom, Playbook, Tab 10.1 and she came home with an iPad, I wouldn't be the saddest kid on earth, but I do know that I'd be returning it for something I want.
Of course, I also hate it when she brings me home a cheeseburger when I wanted a hamburger.
Yeesh dude, at least your wife cares enough to do nice things for you. :(
By the same token, if I explicitly told my wife I wanted a Xoom, Playbook, Tab 10.1 and she came home with an iPad, I wouldn't be the saddest kid on earth, but I do know that I'd be returning it for something I want.
Of course, I also hate it when she brings me home a cheeseburger when I wanted a hamburger.
Yeesh dude, at least your wife cares enough to do nice things for you. :(
4God
Jul 27, 10:00 AM
My credit card is melting just thinking about WWDC. :D